Episode 5: Networking and Collaboration; Building Business Success in Pilates and Beyond with Ava Rodriguez

Ava:
So my father had that mindset but I don't remember much of it. I do remember my mum though, being fierce, and bold, and unapologetically her and she always tells this story that I used to take off the heads of my dolls to understand what was happening on the inside and that I will always question things and never take anything for face value. And I will always argue my case because I wanted to convince her to get what I want partly also because she was really strict, but thinking back that shaped the way I run a business and create content. So in a way yes I think she had a lot to do with it even though in my mind, I'm the first one to take the lead because I don't remember much from my dad.  So you're passionate about educating our industry about joint health and its importance which is evident in everything that you do. So was it always your passion or was there a light bulb moment that led you down this path?

Ava:
I love to say that it was my passion but it actually found me. When I was in my 30s I got three disk bulges that went in my neck and as a result it affected my shoulders bilaterally and that set me off on a journey because you know pain is debilitating and it alters all movement and I realised that everything that I've ever been taught was about managing pain rather than actually knowing how to solve it.

I'm working around it which has its value but I actually cannot move beyond it so that set me off on a journey to seek. Anyone that knows me knows I'm a seeker, I'm a tinkerer. My husband always jokes that I have an engineer mind that I need to not only understand the ingredients that goes into make a good curry, I also want to understand where the ingredients are from, where they grow, how they thrive if we change, the ratio would that change the outcome, so that's what set me off to go where I am today excellent.

Cheryl: 
Being passionate about something and running a business are two completely different things. So when you are put into the situation where you have to run the business and it's different to your passion, how do you navigate that building a business?

Ava:
It is. Because when you're good at teaching nobody hands you a manual on how to actually also market, write your business plan actually see it through, and I think that I'm very lucky to have a husband that is a very successful entrepreneur but I also learned a lot through trial and error what works what doesn't work, where do you push. I think because I'm a person who pivots quite fast and I'm open to learning.

In general I learn faster because I don't come with pre-set rules of how things are meant to be. I like to play with what I have and if it's not working then you have to change your strategy right? If you're willing to jump fast then I suppose you learn fast, but as you said it is completely different skill set.

Cheryl:
Apart from your husband are there any other key people that have helped you build your business and learn about business?

Ava:
Well yes there's two parts to that:

1. I observe people that I perceive are successful and I talk to them and I try to learn from them. You know then you have to put it to the test to see what works for you what doesn't work for you because every business is different right? But the core value of a business, as in how do you grow certain things, are the same.

2. the other thing is to learn how to delegate that was hard for me, not because I have a hard time delegating in itself I used to not anymore but more, to know when it's not your expertise how do you know the person that you are going to employ are going to deliver what they promise and to the level that you want it to be at so you have to sort of make a few mistakes there where you actually lose money but it teaches you a very valuable lesson. Knowing what questions to ask is the hardest thing in life, especially when you don't know. So when someone comes and says you know their job is to be a PR agent, I'm not a PR agent I don't know what that means so I have to sort of know what to ask to see what they can offer. Not because what they can offer maybe is bad, but it might not be aligned with what I need as well.

Kirsten:
Yeah true. I think that's where personality comes into it as well. You have to gel with the type of person that you're dealing with, and not just the level of expertise that they're offering you because if you can't gel with them personally then the relationship, in a business sense, is never going to flourish.

Ava:
That is so true you have to be aligned. I've learned this the hard way. Cheryl:

You brought up an interesting point about you learn from people who you perceive are successful. What does that perception look like to you?

Ava:
So first and foremost that they are happy in their business, because success to me is also that you're doing something that you're passionate about but it also works for you it's not draining. You know running a business is difficult it's not linear you have months where you're swamped and you have months that's better, but I want to see a person thriving in their business. Not just that they are flourishing in terms of how much they earn but also in their personal life it's not taking over it's part of who they are.

So then I start looking at them and observing them, which is my forte the tinkerer, to see what are the values that they have in place that leads them forward so that when things get overwhelming they fall back on that and it sorts of guides them through things right? I often get this question 'are you not tired?', 'are you not exhausted?', because I work at a very high speed that's just my personality and my mind is constantly thinking. I'm sitting here thinking about what my left toe is doing and it's exhausting for most people but that's just how I operate.

To answer that question is that I think that I have a good balance between work and play I don't wait for play I just blend them in together but it's also because I do something that I absolutely love it's part of who I am. I think about it when I'm in the shower, I think about it when I'm having dinner, I'm thinking about it not because I have to because I want to. Cheryl:
So let's talk about Pilates in all its forms; Clinical, Group Reformer, Semi-Privates all that sort of stuff. You're moving to try to change the way that we move and our joint strengthening and stuff like that. So you know one of the things that annoys me, and I know it annoys you, is when you get someone with a sore back and the first thing that somebody wants to do is make them do bridges or clamps.

So let's use the sore back as an example what would you do in that situation if someone came to you? This is a very interesting thing because I have a lot to say about that.

Cheryl:
Let's shorten it down to 60 seconds.

Ava:
Look I travel 10 times a year right I meet a lot of professionals all top of their game. They either been running businesses for a long time or going to start businesses and they all are passionate about the same thing, how do we show up for our clients on a higher level? How do we help them better? I think that often what we miss is to ask the right question.

The question is not always about what do I do with someone that has a sore back because pain is multifaceted. We know this research indicates it, but pain is also often a symptom of something that is not functioning somewhere else. So at the end of the day you need to understand the correlation between what is happening in the body you are teaching, versus what are the exercises that I'm giving. What is the outcome of the exercises that I'm prescribing those are very two different things.

So you need to understand an exercise and the reasoning behind it, but the more fruitful question is what is happening in the body I'm teaching because then it allows you to interpret the output of that body. What is the nervous system telling you and how do you adjust as you go.

So for me a more fruitful question to someone that asked me that, will be what do I need to learn, what do I not know, and how can I learn so it actually allows me to be able to use it.

Everywhere I go I hear the same story, and I can personally relate, I've taken this and this qualification but I could never use it. I relate to that, this was my pain point and is exactly why I created my teacher training the way I did because if you can't put it into context it's information sitting in the back of your mind but it's not useful which then means that you are going to fall back on giving people bridges for lower back pain and we all know it doesn't work because if you cannot move the back's going to have to pick it up, there is no way around that.

Cheryl:
Yes it's definitely the question that, you need to ask the client in order to understand. The more knowledge that you gain which is actually going to benefit the client will be beneficial rather than, just like you said, falling back on the basics that you already know.

I suppose like you said, as instructors you need to be able to think outside the square, and explore, and ask questions, and keep delving into that deeper level of understanding so that you can be of benefit to your clients.

Ava:
You've got to be an investigator. We might not see it that way but we are.

Cheryl:
For those people listening who don't know anything about joint mobility how would you describe what it is that you do in terms of joint mobility.

So the concept in itself as you know, is very science heavy and complex to understand and it's complex to execute, and frankly it's not very sexy. It just goes over your head, nobody wants to do it, and nobody wants to teach it, so I guess I pulled from four different systems to create a system where I found when and where you throw it in so that is accessible so people want to do it and we also want to teach it. Because we find Pilates sexy right and people come and like to do it and we like sneak it in there, but you you need to know in which sequence and where because that matters right correct and I think that the biggest difference that is easy for me cause it doesn't have reference points. So if you haven't tried it it's really difficult for the mind to go, 'so it like tastes like a pomegranate or does it taste like a grape?'. Cause you haven't tasted this and I guess that, the best way for me to explain it is all workouts whether it's Pilates, strength training, running, whatever it is, it has an intention of giving you maybe more mass, core stability, or to teach you skill. This is about taking something apart and optimising its function and then you have to throw it into that to be able to then not only do it at a higher level but be able to sustain it.

 

See we forget that training needs to be sustainable you're not just training today to look good in the gym and in the studio you're training for when you're 90 when you're 100 and if you can't go under load when you're 80 and 90 because you turned into a tin man, because you didn't put in good work for your joints are we talking holistic and longevity now we use these words but we don't always think about the long game. 

I don't want you to come to me and say "I can't squat and lunge anymore because my knees hurt" and then I find you a bridge and a clam or something else to do. But then the question is even though that is a good exercise not bad in itself right? But when you come back up you can't can you go back lunging and squatting pain-free the answer is going to be no. I'm interested in you not only going back to lunges because it's a fundamental movement pattern, but actually be able to do it under load that is a whole different ballgame. 

Pilates can't do everything, like no system on its own can, we need diversity. Imagine just eating eggs all day long how boring would that be!

Kirsten:
So one of the biggest challenges when you're building a business is to get in front of the right people and building a brand that people will actually trust. You've done an amazing job at collaborating and networking to bring brand awareness. So what are some of the key strategies for collaborating that have helped you grow your business without having a physical location? 

 

Ava:

Yes cause when you don't have a physical location you don't have the benefit of people passing by and coming in and I'm not selling merchandise, I am the merchandise. So I think that when it comes to collaboration I'm always looking for people that are aligned not just with my vision but their vision is simple. They're here to evolve they're not afraid to question and they're not married to one thing they're thinking about the broad picture and if I see that I start a conversation. I think that for a brand to be able to grow fast it needs to add value and it's to be able to stand on its own because you can seek people but it doesn't necessarily mean that you get to collaborate.

So when you seek people are you just looking for them via social media? How are you finding these people that you're like 'I think this is somebody that I want to connect with and collaborate with'.

A lot through social media but also a lot through word of mouth because that's how I grew my business. My MFA community, we're very close - they are all boss queens in their own right - so they are also people that push things forward on their own and as they grow as they do podcasts, and they get featured, they bring their new programs, it ties back into MFA so then they will call me and say "Oh so and so and so would love to host you so and so and so you should talk to that." So there's a lot of that as well.

And so then what do you do in a situation where you've reached out to somebody and they say no?

Ava: 
That's a really good one! Look I expect 'no',  because 'no' to me is not the same as a hard no. Often it's 'not now it doesn't fit now' or 'it's just not suitable right now'. So I take that as information rather than rejection and I go, 'did I explain the added value well?' 'are they in a time in their journey that they just cannot do this right now?' because when you take that and you re-strategize often and you grow and you evolve,

Often 'no' turns into let's talk. So of my most fruitful collaborations through a first 'no' 

Cheryl:
So collaborations and partnerships, they kind of go hand in hand, and approximately 70% of businesses that are partnerships tend to fail in the first 5 years. So have you had any partnerships or collaborations that you've worked with that have gone south? Because I know sometimes when you are dealing with people, and you've sought them, and there's word of mouth, and you talk to them, and their values align and you go "This is going to be amazing we're going to have a great partnership." But then it just does not work.  So has that happened to you? And how do you deal with that?

It has happened to me and we learn by experience.

I've had two different experiences and I've learnt that when we collaborate people sometimes tend to feel that this is a joint effort they "go oh I'm hosting this international superstar and by default it's just magically going to work". I think that comes down to, you're a teacher but you don't understand how to run a business, you don't understand two different skill sets. So you don't understand that x amount of things are expected of you and it makes it difficult then to just drive things forward right?

The other thing is that the visions are not aligned properly. So they're excited they're like "This is something new oh my gosh I understand, I need it, my joints are locked everybody else's joints are locked we need this we need this." But then when it comes down to actually changing they don't want to they are happy doing what's always been working for them and there is no right or wrong in that, but it just means that collaboration is doomed to fail rather than succeed from the get-go. Because I'm someone that pushes for change I'm someone that has loyalty to science.

Things change all the time and our industry changes all the time and if you're not willing to jump and adapt, and you're not willing to say "hey I used to say this but now we learned better let me introduce this to you" we can't be aligned.

Cheryl:
So what happens then in those two situations that you were in where, obviously when a partnership doesn't work out you can be frustrated you can be angry or whatever, so how do you then pivot from that failed partnership and go "right well I've learned from that I'm not going to do that with that person or someone like that again"?

Ava:
I think that two things happen. Number one is that I learn how to set clear boundaries because I understand that what's needed to drive something forward successfully. So I'm more clear and upfront that this is a collaboration, what can you bring to the table? And then I go okay "but these pillars need to be checked and in place, are you okay with that"? So that they have an opportunity to look that over what I explained to make sure that we are having the same expectations.

We do this in business right? We'll write contracts and everybody knows what's expected of them. But we don't do this in casual relationships, however, we use the same terminology but then it turns out we were meaning completely different things.

So I think that I learn to set those things in place and say I would love to come. 

Perfect!

But these are the things I'm going to need from you are you okay with that?

Yep.

So you don't even start a project and just spare yourself all of those grievances if you have clear boundaries. I align myself with people that understand it's a joint effort; that understand that change is a necessity and not a threat it's an opportunity;  and that they value my time as much as they value their time.

Because, look we all operate from our own goals, fears, and limitations right? And it's hard to sometimes just put yourself in someone else's shoes and that's where we need to you know put on our big girls pants and learn how to draw boundaries.

I think as a female that's harder than it is for a male because there's so much emotions. There is so much going on, there's a nurturing aspect, we're more invested in it  and as educators we want to see other people thrive that's why we share knowledge otherwise we would jump into another aspect of teaching. So it's very easy to then be - I don't want to say taken for granted but it's expected because that's who you are - so it's expected out of you. Bu then they forget that it needs to be reciprocated -

Cheryl:
There's a give and take in the relationship. I'm giving you all of this you I'm happy for you to take that, but at some point you need to give back to me so that we can keep working symbiotically.

Kirsten:
So you mentioned how word of mouth is the biggest way that you network and connect with people but sometimes when you are trying to network, you can feel a little bit forced and awkward and it's a bit uncomfortable if you're kind of going in with a certain agenda. But are there specific places or events that you've actually made meaningful connections? Absolutely I think Pilates conventions are -

Oh like the Pilates Expo?

Exactly I was just going to say! But truthfully and I'm going to tell you why. I present on different stages internationally fitness conventions, Pilates conventions; and people come there with one intention. They're open-minded that they're there with one purpose and that is to learn. So collaborations are very natural because I know why I'm there, they know why they are there, we're all there to learn, and evolve, and gain something new, and understand what's happening in the market. It's a very natural place to actually make very meaningful connections because otherwise when you cold DM someone, which is not something I do because I don't roll like that just because it's just awkward I don't do awkward. I think you get better value especially just out of a face to face conversations, or a phone call just something where you're actually speaking to somebody. DMs and messages can be easily ignored also they don't know who you are and it becomes more of a you trying to convince them that they need you, rather than them understanding that you're bringing something of value to them and they have something of value to bring. This is going to be a fruitful collaboration right? 

 

In fitness conventions, Pilates conventions, anything that's related to your industry is the most valuable.

Kirsten:
So if you someone who's listening wants to make their first real business connection, say within this week, what would be your recommendation or piece of advice to them?

Ava:
I would definitely say buy a ticket and come to the Pilates Expo if you live in Australia

Kirsten:
100%, very good value there!

Ava:
Yeah because, you have so many things under the same roof in those few hours. You have accessibility to apparatus, to equipment, to teachers, to different types of training, to different types of expertise, and then you have colleagues that are also attending. So you're going to make meaningful connections that you can't even foresee That's very true indeed.

So Pilates, let's talk about that since we're on the Pilates Expo. Where do you see the Pilates industry heading in the next 5 years?

Ava:
Uh that's a good question, I think that more Pilates teachers are going to understand that they need to seek education outside of Pilates.

Cheryl:
Do you think that's going to separate the good teachers from the great ones?

Ava:
I do because I think that if you understand that at the end of the day the more you understand about the correlations in the human body, the better teacher you're going to be. Pilates is your favourite tool, it is like my first love. I'm also a level four strength coach, I'm so many things, but I just happen to love Pilates the most. That means that by default I'm probably going to utilize those tools more but they are tools at the end of the day. When someone walks into my room, or to your room, and they're in pain they're not going to care if you did the Pilates bridge or you did Consuela's workout, they just want results. For  you to deliver those results. Long lasting results -

Cheryl:
That keeps them coming back 

Ava:
Yes! You need diversity, they need to be able to trust you.

So Robin in Melbourne, one of my MFA providers, she says the proof is in the pudding. yes very much so the proof. That's why word of mouth happens, because you are actually delivering something of value in a way that revolutionizes the way other people teach.

People are going to come, even the ones that are naturally against change eventually they come.

Cheryl:
That's true yeah. So if you are an instructor or someone in the movement space who wants to try something different, basically you're just saying go and seek more information.

Ava:
Go seek more information, but before that learn one thing - what do you not know? So if all of your teacher trainings are within Pilates, you're only learning how to play with the same tools. That means you have one dimensional view whether you like to hear it or not! Mama's a straight shooter.

The second thing is that the workshop, or the teacher training, or the seminar you're attending, how is that delivered to you? Can you put it into any context? Because also if you can't you lost time and money you you lost an investment, and it can be embarrassing to say I don't understand this.

I come across a lot of people that hold one or two certifications that I hold when I'm in a seminar, and eventually they go "you know what Ava I have that certification too but I could never use it". That's upsetting, why are you re-certifying in the same thing over and over and over again? I think those are the valuable things to ask and then do your research, talk to people that are in your industry that you trust and you respect to see what have they learned what added value to their teaching.

Kirsten:
Knowledge is power

Ava:
Knowledge is power and put into context you're unstoppable.

Kirsten:
True. And even if you did have a qualification that you felt like you weren't putting to use, the more you learn the more you'll find ways to use that qualification that you may have shelved for a while.

Ava:
Yeah, yeah, if you're lucky you get those light bulb moments. I mean, most of people that I learned from never actually cared if I put the puzzle together or not. Now I have to be a tinkerer right? I need to understand where the curry leaves grows, and where it thrives. I can't expect everybody else to be like that.  But I think one of the most my favourite pieces of feedback that I hear from my seminars is "oh my god you made other things that I know make sense you connected the dots", Then it becomes what you just said, all of a sudden you sprinkle some gold dust on the tools you already have cause you're like "Oh that's a knife I didn't see you for a knife I'm going to use you as a knife now" and that's powerful.

That's what I want right? I didn't collect my qualification just to collect them. I want to connect the dots other people miss correct.

Cheryl:
Very true and that's the beauty of education.

Ava:
Continuing education. For years I was upset about how anatomy is taught to us. I was this the way it should be because when you walk into your first workshop you realise that muscles do not look the way they do in a book. Then it dawned on me, movement science is too complex. If we were taught that from the get-go we will probably not be teaching because we will be so overwhelmed. This is why continuing education and diversity in continuing education it's so imperative because then you layer things on as you go.

Kirsten:
That's exactly right. So to wrap up we've got a bit of rapid fire questions, few quick questions that we'll ask you.

Number one 'who from your family is your biggest supporter?

Ava:
Husband, because he has very different skill sets than I do and we always ask each other because we have different views and he's a boss babe. He wants me to thrive. In your opinion what's the most important thing for a successful business?

Ava:
I think most people create a business out of what they want rather than what the market needs. So you need to do your research and understand what is the problem that you're trying to solve. The second thing is imitation. Just because you admire someone. you can never be like someone else you won't have longevity you need to stand on your own. People are going to find out and you're going to tire. Yeah so no copycats no copycats.

Kirsten:
Finally if you could offer people one piece of advice, so for example say that if someone said to you "I'm thinking of going into an online business model" - what would be a piece of advice that you would give to them?

Cheryl:
Go for it!

Ava:
Yea! What's holding you back? Haha

Well apart from doing your research and understanding what it is that you are going to bring to the market. Also that you need to be very clear on what you want to achieve. I think that creating a business sounds very sexy from the outside but you have to understand the sacrifices you have to make and if you're willing to make them because they come at a cost you have to give something in order to gain something going back.

Cheryl:
What sacrifices do you think you've made? 

Ava:
I have to travel. I miss things with my children, I've even been away for my oldest child's birthday so instead I have to celebrate her before. I have to teach her as well that in life there's no such thing as fair that's just a Disney movie creation and when you need to do something you need to show up and you need to do it well and if I celebrate you before and after I'm still celebrating you I'm still loving you, I'm still there, but that's a sacrifice right? And that's something I have to deal with.

Cheryl:
Do you get the mum guilt when you do stuff like that?

Ava:
I do! Like any other mum you know?
When you're a female there's never a win. There is either like - I wasn't enough of a good of a mother, or I didn't do anything for myself. But I think that because I'm very pragmatic as a person I'm very good, or I taught myself to be very good at detaching my emotions from a situation.

I can see it for what it is and as a result I probably feel less guilty because I also understand that I'm raising two females that one day are going to be entrepreneurs themselves. They're going to be mothers, they're going to be leaders they're going to be someone's partner, and I need them to understand that prior to all of that you're your own person.

Cheryl:
Very true. So Ava if people wanted to get in contact with you or get more information from you about your mobility training, how would they do so?

Ava:
So they can visit movebeyondwithava.com which is my website or hook me up on Instagram @movebeyond.withava

and you can try a free hip class to understand what it is that we're talking about because that is the best way for you to know what I bring to the table but also how different this is to anything else that we actually do.

Cheryl:
Very true. Thank you Ava so much for your time it's been wonderful to have you. And thank you everybody for listening.