Episode 4: The Runaway Fund with Carla Mullins

Cheryl:
Hi, everybody, and welcome to the podcast, ‘It's family Business. Today I have a wonderful guest, Carla Mullins, who is joining us. Carla, welcome to the show.

Carla:
Thank you.  It's kind of exciting to be here.

Cheryl:
Carla, how about you let everybody know where you're located and what your business is?

Carla:
My business is Body Organics and Makarlu and Body Organics Education. So, there's three businesses, but they're all run from Brisbane, Australia, the sunny state - except for today when it's raining.

Cheryl:
So when did you start your business, Carla?

Carla,
Oh, 2002, I think it was around then.

 

Cheryl:

It's sort of official date. There's that set up date and then there's the official date.

Carla:
Yeah, yeah. So 2002 and it started as Pilates and healing. And so I had Pilates and I had a number of practitioners, some of whom are still with us. They're working with us 24 years later. The business company name was always called Body Organics, and I noticed in around 2008 - 2009, I started to expand beyond just Pilates.

So, I started to add Core Align and Gyrotonic into my work. But I also noticed that everybody was starting to use the name ‘Pilates’. So even in 2009, it was starting to become a bit confusing for people. So I ended up changing it to ‘Body Organics’ and that's been our trading name and business ever since.

Cheryl:
Lovely. Now your husband Michael works with you in the business. When did he come on board and what?

Carla:
Yes, 2012 he joined. So, he had been working as a general manager and marketing specialist in a private corporation.

Cheryl:
And what made him put him on board with you?

Carla:
He was offered a redundancy and he went “I could come and boss Carla around”.

Cheryl:
I'm sure that went down well, right?

Carla:
Yes! So, he took the redundancy and then he joined in 2012 and it took him a little while to find his groove.

Bossing thousands of people around as a general manager and then having and coming into Pilates and health work was a completely different thing for him. And it took him a while because these people aren't interested in money. And I'm like, yes, I know, darling, they still need to make money. But how you work with people in this industry was very different to what he was used to, and the motivations, and the focus and the interest was different.

So he got into the groove and now all of these years later he has his role and I have my role.

Cheryl:
And so he has a marketing role within your, within the three businesses. Is that what he does?

Carla:
He does the marketing. I've now allowed him to take over the accounts.

Cheryl:
I like it, just passed it on.

Carla:
The only problem was that before that, you know, our finances have been very separate and all of a sudden he didn't know what my credit card was and I completely controlled my finances.
And then he started looking after the accounts and he goes, you spend that much on your hair! And I'm like, “Don’t criticise that expense it's essential.”

He takes over most a lot of the marketing I do marketing for my sections.

So what sort of happened is initially we had our Pilates business and our allied health practitioners and that was what we did. And around 2013, 2014 I started to be more serious about my educational work. So starting to deliver courses and started to develop that stream of the business which then that became Body Organics Education which has grown exponentially over the years and that has become my area of responsibility.

He developed a different part of the business and that was the manufacturing production of specific products and the Makarlu range of products and he started working on that from around 2015.He's responsible for that sort of part of the work.

And so production and marketing of that, and managing intellectual properties for that, is his stuff.

Education, teaching Pilates, working with Pilates teachers, that's my, that's my ball game.

Cheryl:
So, what do you think then the key to the success of you working together is considering you've got two different divisions that you're kind of working through?

Carla:
Don't step on each other's toes. He's a bad dancer, so he regularly steps on my toes, but we really have a very separate place.
He, he will consult with me about the product and we, develop ideas and discuss about that sort of stuff. And he will look at things that I'm doing in education.

But it's really my job to create my vision and it's his job to create his vision.

He has his office in a completely different building and suburb, and I have my office in a completely different building and suburb.

Cheryl:
And never the two shall meet.
And when you get home, is that when the two divisions meet together?

Carla:
Sometimes. And it's a really challenging thing because sometimes you've got to say no, we can't keep talking about business.
And that's a hard thing because sometimes you do have to meet and talk. And it's finding that balance.

Cheryl:
But do you schedule times when the two of you would meet to discuss business or it's just a, when we think about it, we're going to have business sometimes.

Carla:
Sometimes it's better if it's scheduled, but it doesn't always work because. I’m very punctual and Michael is not.

Cheryl:
And also things go wrong.

Carla:
It just, they go wrong and you just think you've got something sorted.
And when for me, I'm the person that has to teach if someone's sick or I'm the person who's running courses. So I, I can't change my schedule as much.

I'm not as flexible. I'm responding to people. And so that can sometimes go a little bit haywire.

Cheryl:
So what happens when the two of you encounter conflict in the business?

You've got two different ideas, maybe, or two different opinions about how something should happen. How do you resolve that conflict? Not sleeping in separate bedrooms, though.

Carla:
In general, we kind of know each other's wheelhouse.

Cheryl:
What do you mean by that?

Carla:
He knows that his area of expertise is manufacturing and finding products and things like that.

And I'm very much go, “oh, I look at something and I go, I can do that, that, that.”

And he goes, “what do you mean?”

“You could do that with it and said, oh, that part.”

And he goes, “I was thinking of using that for feet.”

And I'm saying, “Oh no, that's not for feet, darling. That's for, I'd be using that for this, this and this and this.”

And so, he knows that my area of expertise is exploring that sort of ideas. Probably the two things that we sort of recognise in each other is he sees me as the accelerator, and here's the break.

I'm the person that is probably looking at new things, thinking, thinking about new ideas, and he'll be going, hold it, let's finish this project.

You're probably nodding at me right now going, yes, that sounds like another relationship I know.

Cheryl:
Yes, yes, very much so.

But I think you need those two because you complement each other, one to sort of keep the ideas coming and flowing to make sure that you stay new and fresh in the market, and the other one that kind of can assess it and think, OK, well, yes, that's a great idea, but we just have to finish this one project 1st and see that to completion so that it can actually hit the market and do well in its own right.

Carla:
Yeah, yes, that's a very nice way of saying it.

Cheryl:
Only because I'm the break.

Carla:
Yeah, I know you would be the break.

Cheryl:
So how do you think his contribution to the business has elevated your business?

Carla:
Michael is much more focused on profit.

And I always say to him, oh, it's such a bourgeois concept, but he is far more focused on how to make monetise things. And he is much clearer in in the marketing and strategies about diversification and understanding different revenue streams and creating that. And so Michael brings much more of that very long term business planning process.

Cheryl:
Yep, the business strategies and how that's going to be implemented.

Carla:
And I'm probably better at identifying trends. So as he has said, if you're interested in something, it'll be a trend in 10 years time. You know what I mean?

I'm an early adopter of technology and at first, he'd go, “what are you doing?”

So in 2005 I was already looking at online booking systems and diary systems and they weren't available then. So, I had a little system made for me, and then in 2011, I transferred all my accounts over to Zero so that it was a much better thing.

No one had heard of Zero, and it was a really different thing.
And he's like, going, “Are you sure?”
And now it's like, you know, it's one of your better ideas, Carla.
I Was not afraid to venture into fields where nobody has trod before, basically.

So yes, sometimes it would be good to have a landmine expert with me because it can get messy, the things can blow up along the way.

Cheryl:
So what do you do when one of the divisions has a negative review, or bad customer service experience, or something along those sort of lines happen?

So in say in Michael's division, he might get negative feedback from a customer, or a bad Google review, or product review.

And similarly in your side, maybe a client, not that that ever happens, but a client may not appreciate the work that you've done with them.
They might be a new client.

How did the two of you navigate, or you just don't tell each other about the negative things that happened?

Carla:
No we do talk about the negative and probably one of our strengths is that we tackle it head on.
So Michael's attitude is if something's gone wrong with the product and someone says this didn't work or this is not working, he goes, “I'll send you a new one”.

There's no discussion or debate. We just, it says acknowledge it, fix it, move it on.

For me, with the education staff, for instance, it's taken a long time.

So some people, when I first started teaching, it took me a long time to refine my teaching style and I had to develop, I was learning, and I knew that.
And when people go, “oh, I don't like this” or “this wasn't right”. OK, that's fine. It's not right for you, but do you acknowledge that I put the time and effort into this?
And do you acknowledge that you feel like you've gotten some knowledge out of this?
And generally people go, yeah.
And every year we review our education product and delivery.

So I have course providers that I work with and students have said “this is not working or we want this in there.” And I have a think about that process.

And then it takes about six months where we look at different ways and systems and we change them not for the sake of changing them, but we go, OK, yeah, that's not working well, I thought would be working for someone.

So for instance, we deliver a certification programme for Pilates teachers. And we have online content and we have written content, and we have very detailed manuals, and we have very detailed material. But students would say, “oh, I just need to know in advance how much time each video was or how much time I need to allocate to this amount of work this week, each week in my course.” So we completely restructured the course and created new diary planners for students as part of that process, and their course expectations, and the students in the course providers go, “this is fantastic”!

And I then, you know, I showed the students that had raised the issues or how they were modelled and they went, yes, this is what we wanted.

Cheryl:
So you're basically using that negative information.

Carla:
Not, it's not that it's negative, but information that's not in a positive wonderful light to make your systems and processes better, to improve the business functionality.

Cheryl:
Basically that's what you're using it for. It’s only a mistake if you’re learning it twice.

Carla:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cheryl:
You're using it as a learning process. And that and that's, that's part of the process.

Carla:
I mean, if you're coming from Pilates, your approach is always that you're evolving and you're learning and you're reflecting on that experience that you've just had. And what does that teach you, and how does that change you for the next time you do that or your next time you teach that?

I feel a reflection, whether you be a Pilates mover, a Pilates teacher or a Pilates business owner, is actually part of what allows you to evolve and change.

Cheryl:
Not just external reflection, but internal reflection, both very important, very important, very true.

So you were saying that you started your business back in 2002 and you had some non-family members that were you had hired. Obviously now with the business the way that it is, you obviously have further people that you've hired along the way.

What qualities do you look for in people that are non-family members when you go to hire somebody?

Carla:
The capacity to learn. So that's actually a really important thing.

Sometimes I see people come in and they have all the qualifications and pieces of paper, but they actually don't have that ability to learn something new or to adapt to the situation. So, they create these barriers or arrogance that actually undermine the rest of the team, create hierarchies.

So I'm not very interested in this person has this qualification and therefore there's so much more important. I really don't like that sort of structure. I want somebody who cares more than anything else.

Cheryl:
You say cares about people, what about caring about what they produce?
Yes, they have to care about people because they're looking after the people, but you know, the quality that they put into that work that they give you do, do they need to care about that as well? Is that important?

Carla:
Oh, that goes without saying.

I have come across people who don't care and they don't reflect, and they don't take lessons. You know, you can give them feedback and they'll go, oh, you're just bullying me. Well, and I'm like going, “no, we're talking about how this works.”

But they have been my lessons as well.

I will generally spend a bit of time talking to somebody before I employ them.
And I'll actually get them to if, especially if they're a Pilates teacher, I'll get them to teach some people.

You can tell a lot about the way people interact and they talk and they do things. And I've got it wrong on some occasions. But I also have, I've had a lot of teachers with me for at least eight to 10 years. So, I'm probably doing something right there.

And we try to be open about things when there's a problem as well. So now and again I get grumpy.

Cheryl:
Everybody does. It's the end of the year. We're tired.

Carla:
All I'd like to say “if you were as perfect as me, I wouldn't have to be as grumpy. If you could do it the way I do it, we'd be fine.”

It's trying to make sure that there's a sense of humour and a lightness. Yeah, I really try to allow people the freedom to do what they need to do.

My husband is much better at attending to the micro details, and I would say that I'm probably more free flowing and allow people to do what they need to do.
And I expect them to do the same for me.

Cheryl:
So when it comes to hiring people and getting the people that you like - It's the vibe attitude.

Carla:
You can sort of you spend some time chatting with them. And I try not to be anything other than who I am in the so I have to wear shoes.

Cheryl:
It may not go down well, but it is a WHS issue. But we'll forget about that.

Carla:
I know. But if we're sitting down having a chat in the office, I might just take my shoes off and have a chat over a cup of coffee.

I also live in Queensland.

Cheryl:
That is true, not mandatory up there.

Carla:
I'll sit down and have a coffee and feel, see how it feels.

Cheryl:
It's very true actually, that when you, especially in the Pilates world, if you're going to hire an instructor, it's always good to see how they teach somebody else and how they interact with that person, a different client as opposed to being you.

I mean, I've had instructors that I've made them teach me just so that I can see how they're going to interact with me, how they're interacting with the body.

It's a good way to assess if they've got the skills that you need in the culture and the environment that you're trying to create. 

 

Carla:
And, if you're even if you're hiring a receptionist or someone like that, you also want to see how they talk to people and how they interact with people.

Because at times you might have people who are in pain or who might be a bit grumpy, and you have to have the skills to put those people at ease.

Cheryl:
Yeah, very true. So, you've got a son who's 15 years old. How do you think having children and running a business, do you think that running the business impacted him at all in some ways?

Carla:
Yeah. In the business, in some ways, yes, he's had some advantages from that in the sense that I've got the flexibility and Michael has the flexibility to do things for him for the day.

If we have to go and see a performance at school or whatever, we can just pop out. But that’s also a problem at times. We don't have flexibility, and we have to work long hours.

I probably knew that he that had some impact on him and how he's had been dragged around to different places because in 2015 or 14 when Michael broke his pelvis, he had a bicycle accident and he broke his pelvis and his sacrum in six different places and he was in hospital.

Max was probably about four or five at the time. And so there was an X ray up on the wall and the doctor was standing there and Max goes, “wow, Dad, that acetabulum looks weird.” And the orthopaedic surgeon looks down at this 4 year old and he goes, “what did you say?”

The acetabulum? And he points to it and he goes, “you can see it there and you can see how the femurs not sitting” and the doctors were shocked.

Cheryl:
And you're like, that's my son. Well done.

Carla:
Yeah. And I realised that maybe he'd been to a few too many courses or heard the discussions at the table or watched me writing books or things.

But another thing, he's had adventures as a result. So we've had to go to different countries for the product and go to trade shows. And in 2019, he went to Las Vegas and he, I think he must have been about 8 or 9 at the time, had a little bow tie and a suit. And he's standing there at the on the stand, on the stand.  And he's charming people. And he's like, come on, let me show you.

Cheryl:
So does he have a role in the business currently at 15, mowing the lawns?

Carla:
He is. He is starting to help on some things.
He would like to have a career in e-sports, but you know, that's not going to happen.

Cheryl:
Yeah, not going to happen.

Carla:
Look, I think he's learnt a lot from having parents who own their own business. And I'll be honest, my parents had their own businesses and my grandparents had their own businesses. So, I come from small business owners. So you sort of learn to budget and you know things go back and forward and you have to do long hours from that process.

And I think he has learnt that.

Cheryl:
So you've sort of passed on your generational knowledge from small businesses, from all of your grandparents, parents now you and you've passed that on to Max as well.

Carla:
Probably yes, which is not a bad thing though.

Cheryl:
I think like it means that he'll have a different skill set to other children his own age because of that endeavour.

Carla:
I think so I can see it in the way he's very confident and able to talk to people.

I remember, somebody was walking along the street and talking to a complete stranger when he was with us, and this gentleman looked at him and said, “Max, you'll never know a stranger.”
And I thought, that's a really nice compliment to say.
But he's learned to have to do that.

He's also learnt, I think, how hard it is to actually work in a business and understands that it's not, oh, you know, you're just bossing people around. I think that's a really hard thing for people to understand is that to run a business, you actually have to make a lot of sacrifice and family has to make a lot of sacrifice.

Cheryl:
Exactly, exactly.

Carla:
And at times your family gets benefits as well, but it is part of a vocation is running that.

There’s this balance of really being ethical and supportive of your employees, but also at the same time being ethical and supportive of yourself and your family.
And, and that's a  real challenge. It is the big balance to manage.

And I also think the other thing and, I can see that in Max, is when you own your own business, you actually have to make do, you have to find solutions. And I find that a really interesting observation when you see people who are not from a private practise personal business sort of experience.
So when I was studying and I had to do placements in hospitals and I would just think, “oh, I'll do that.”
And someone goes “no, no, no, no, no, you don't do that.”

I'm just tying up the rubbish bag and putting it in the bin.

“No, no, no, that's the cleaners job.”

Or you're like “you’re in your division, stay in it.”

And there were also things like, I came up with some solutions and they said, “no, we don't do that.”
And I said, “well, who does? I'll talk to them because it's a solution for this patient and we're looking at the best patient outcome.”

They're going. “You have to stay in your own box. That's somebody else's job.”
And I'm saying, “well, how do you make sure that another person's making sure that they're on the thing? And how do we all work together? How do we find a solution?”

And I feel like when you're working in your own business, you really do have to find solutions.

Cheryl:
You have to make do.

Carla:
And yeah, and that's how we came up with products. We actually had to make do and find solutions to a problem.

And couldn’t say, “oh, that's somebody else's problem. Let's push that to a side”, because you're the only one that has the problem, so you have to solve it.

In your business, you have the problem, so you have to solve it. You can't delegate anybody else, pretty much.

And you can have experts come in and we have had this done. We need experts to come in, but sometimes they're actually telling you stuff you already know.

Cheryl:
But that's actually a good thing because it reaffirms that what you're doing is the right thing. Like you're on the right track.

Carla:
Exactly. But at the same time, then you can turn around and they go, “oh, will you do this?”
And you're like going so I know all of this. You're telling me to do this and now it comes back to me. I was wanting you to do it for me. Like, can't you just do that?

Cheryl:
I was hoping to get out of that, that extra job.

Carla:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to add to my list. I want to make my list smaller.

But then again, it taught me that I had to also learn in running my own businesses to be much clearer in my expectations and my goals. And that was an interesting challenge as well. Communicating that to others, so you know, when you're contracting people and saying, well, I need this done, this done, this done. And they'd go, oh, OK. And you would get a better result as you were more specific about what you wanted as the outcome for the contract that you were giving them.

And because I have a legal background, I was probably too specific in some cases.

Cheryl:
I don't think you can ever be too specific about things when it comes to contractors or dealing with employees or even with family members in the business. You can never be too specific because if you're not, then it leaves those grey areas where things end up coming back to you and you have to do it yourself because you should.

Carla:
The sludge.

Cheryl:
The sludge areas, Yeah.

So, if you were to offer people one takeaway that you have learnt from being in business with your family, For example, if someone said to you, “oh, I'm thinking of going to business with my husband”, what would be one piece of advice that you would give them?

Carla:
Have a Plan B.

Cheryl:
OK.

Carla:
Well, part of that is, and I'm serious about that; when you set up a business, there's going to be a period of time where you have no income.

Honestly, unless you've made some genius thing and from day one you've got an income, if there are two people in that family and this is your only source of income, there's going to be a lot of financial tension in that arrangement.

So Michael joined me after 10 years, by that stage there was already a revenue stream and I'd done a lot of hard yards to get there.

So first of all, make sure at least one of you has income from another source while you're getting yourself going.  And it will be hard that first five years as you are working out what works, what doesn't work, and getting your income stream clear is really important.

Cheryl:
Very true.

 

Carla:
Secondly is always put aside money, especially if you're a woman.

Cheryl:
Yes, know where the money is.

Carla:
Yes, and I have a runaway fund. Not that I'm planning to, but it's like an amount of money aside that is not linked to the business.

Because, if there is a disaster, so if your partner drops dead or your husband drops dead, what people don't realise that in business, is that if they're a Co-signatory on the account, those accounts might be frozen.

Cheryl:
They are frozen, yes.

Carla:
And you're trying to run a business and yes, it'll take you a little bit of time getting all of that sorted.
But having that money set aside there means that you can continue to operate while those are the bits and pieces out.

Cheryl:
Yes, exactly. And so, I that's three to six months?

Carla:
Yeah, it's three to six months there of money set aside so that, if that's happened, you've got that backup, You have that money set aside in your name.

Cheryl
And then Michael also has a said amount of money set aside in his name?

Carla:
I don't know what Michael does. He can do whatever he wants to.
I'm not around. He can deal with the problems.

Cheryl:
Alright, so you're set and no matter what happens, you're good to go.

Carla:
Yep.

Cheryl:
I think that's a really good piece of advice, because a lot of women don't actually know a lot about the finances when it comes to a business. They might let the accountant do it, or their husband do it, or their partner.

But yeah, if they have their own money set aside that if something does catastrophic happens, they can still access funds.

That's a really important point I like it.

Carla:
And investing that as well working with a good investor. So say for instance, for me, since 2000 I've been running business, I've been investing. I have always put money aside in superannuation and we have our own superannuation fund, self-managed superannuation fund.
So always put money aside even if it's hard.

It means you know, I've got grey hair now I don't bother getting my hair done. But sometimes you work out what expectations are.

But also say for instance, I put out a certain amount. So in 2007 I was able to buy one of my business premises. I still have a small mortgage on that, but I'm at least investing in that thing.

We always put money into the Superfund, and we allocate that money over time. So in 2020 we were able to buy a very nice commercial premises with our Superfund, which meant we stopped having to pay rent on a different place and we're paying a lot of rent.

Now we're investing, we're of course we're paying rent to our Superfund, but it's at least going towards us.

So it's about being clear that you're in business to provide you with financial security and resources so that you're not going to live in poverty when you retire, because I do want to retire one day.

Cheryl:
You’re preparing for your future.

Carla:
Yeah, yeah, you're preparing for your future while still being present and enjoying what your present can do. It’s about getting your financial structures organised when you first start.

You might not get it right when you first start your business, but once you've been in business for about 3 or 4 years, you've got an idea of what your cash flows are and your lifestyle, and how do you manage that and put that money aside.

Talk to a good financial advisor, set up a good legal structure to allow you to start putting money away in your Superfund.

The number of people, and particularly women who I hear, “Oh no, I never really thought about my superannuation.”

I'm like going, “so when are you going to start thinking about that?”

Cheryl:
Time goes by so quickly and you can just blink and, you know, 10 years have gone past and you haven't done anything.

Carla:
And you're like, whoa. Oh, and it's compounding.

I hear a lot of Pilates teachers who work as contractors and they say, “oh, superannuation, don't worry about it.  Just take the money. As a contractor, you don't need to worry about superannuation.”

And I'm like, “OK, well legally you're supposed to worry about it. And legally the business is supposed to do that.”

But also you should be worrying about that from a point of view. I would say having that, and having shares, you know, I know that COVID wasn't kind to us. It created a really big problem for us financially, a lot of people. So also when you try to diversify your funds, you know, stock market property, you know, cash reserves, all that sort of stuff, when something like COVID or the stock market crashes or the world goes into chaos, all of those things get affected.

So, trying to foolproof those things at the same time. But those things are also there because there will be times that your business will have problems. Like COVID - much like many, many small businesses, we had to borrow money that we're paying off now.

And I mean, that was only four years ago. Let’s face it, we're still recovering from that.

But adding those resources, and I remember speaking to a financial advisor at the time, she said in 2017, “you need to have your business structured so that you have six months worth of revenue money set aside, not just in your run away fund, because there might be a period of time when you might not be able to trade or something goes wrong. So you need to have that ready to go there.”

Which sounds ridiculous, but I guess 20 odd years later, I'm still in business.

Cheryl:
Yeah, that's right. Very good advice, Carla. I hope everybody that was listening will take that on board.

Make sure you've got a Plan B and make sure your finances are good and you've got your runaway fund.

Carla:
Yeah.  Well, that's actually what my Nana told me.

Cheryl:
Very smart woman before her time.

Carla:
Yeah, I mean, she was widowed during the Great Depression with small kids, and there were no pensions. There was no government support. She had to make ends meet.

And for the rest of her life, she always had that little fund to support herself somehow.

Sometimes it's hard.

And that's the other thing I'd say if you're looking for an easy way, don't start your own business.

Cheryl:
Very true.

Carla:

Making money that way is not easy.

Cheryl:
Yeah, very true. Carla, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. It's been a wonderful conversation.

If anybody would like to get in contact with you, how would they do so?

Carla
Oh, email me. Probably the best one to do is info@bodyorganicseducation.com and someone will get back to you

 

Cheryl:
and ask you lots of questions and you'll be able to answer them about their runaway fund that they need.

 

Carla:
You might laugh, but can I tell you when I spoke to some of my clients, and I have a lot of clients and ladies in their 60s and their 70s, “Oh yes, darling, I'm like, Oh yeah, I know.”

Cheryl:
I think it's a great idea. I just love how you call it the runaway fund - because you just never know.

Carla:
And the ladies were telling me about all their hiding spots. My favourite, I'm sorry, I'm just going to tell you this.

My favourite of their hiding spots was to wrap it up in the alfoil and put it in the back of the freezer because no one was going to look there.

Cheryl:
That's a great idea. Carla, thank you so much for joining us.

If you would like to have any more information about Carla and her Body Organics or Body Organics Education or the Makarlu, feel free to contact Carla on info@bodyorganiceducation.com.

Thank you, Carla, for joining us.

We hope that you enjoy the rest of your day up there in Brisbane and we look forward to seeing everybody on the podcast in the next episode.

Carla:
Thank you.